So, I was checking out the new Tortle race option and it has this ability:
Natural Armor
Due to your shell and the shape of your body, you are ill-suited to wearing armor. Your shell provides ample protection, however; it gives you a base AC of 17 (your Dexterity modifier doesn’t affect this number). You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield’s bonus as normal.
Now, because of this I could see most people not taking any armor at all. This would synergize really well with barbarians, as they benefit from a lack of armor. However, they have this ability:
Unarmored Defense
While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.
I was wondering exactly how these two abilities work with each other. Do you just decided which one you want? Or do you combine the two by adding your CON to your natural armor?
Natural armor, like regular armor, is an AC calculation. However, it doesn't count as wearing armor so Unarmored Defense is still valid. And Unarmored Defense is another AC calculation. Whenever you have two valid AC calculations in effect, you get to choose which one you use. There is nothing that says the Tortle cannot benefit from unarmored defense.
Also note that Shell Defense stacks with whichever AC calculation you choose because it is a bonus and not a calculation.
I could just imagine someone loading a tortle barbarian into a catapult and launching him into the enemy and him popping out after landing and tearing it up.
I could just imagine someone loading a tortle barbarian into a catapult and launching him into the enemy and him popping out after landing and tearing it up.
and I now have a reason to make a tortle barb, thanks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do not kill. Do not ****. Do not steal. These are principles which every person of every faith can embrace.
I could just imagine someone loading a tortle barbarian into a catapult and launching him into the enemy and him popping out after landing and tearing it up.
It really makes no sense from a Realism standpoint that a racial AC and a Class based AC don't staack. The racial AC is Biological, which means that you would always have it, and the class one for Monks and Barbs is learned. You would think that being naturally harder to hurt as a species would make you tougher than the other guy who's skin is softer. If I run a home game, That's how I'm gonna run it. Gameplay balance be damned.
It makes no sense from a realism standpoint that dragons breathe fire/acid/frost etc and that people can heal from the the edge of death with an overnight rest.
It's a game and the game world isn't supposed to be the exact same as our own world. 😊
It really makes no sense from a Realism standpoint that a racial AC and a Class based AC don't staack. The racial AC is Biological, which means that you would always have it, and the class one for Monks and Barbs is learned. You would think that being naturally harder to hurt as a species would make you tougher than the other guy who's skin is softer. If I run a home game, That's how I'm gonna run it. Gameplay balance be damned.
So you would happily give a Tortle Barbarian an AC calculation of 17 + Dex + Con? They could easily have 23 AC at level 1 - slowly increasing passed 30 with magic items by max level. Good luck trying to hit them with anything.
Just imagine a Tortle Bear-Totem Barbarian with that AC. I can't imagine much could kill them.
It really makes no sense from a Realism standpoint that a racial AC and a Class based AC don't staack. The racial AC is Biological, which means that you would always have it, and the class one for Monks and Barbs is learned. You would think that being naturally harder to hurt as a species would make you tougher than the other guy who's skin is softer. If I run a home game, That's how I'm gonna run it. Gameplay balance be damned.
So you would happily give a Tortle Barbarian an AC calculation of 17 + Dex + Con? They could easily have 23 AC at level 1 - slowly increasing passed 30 with magic items by max level. Good luck trying to hit them with anything.
Just imagine a Tortle Bear-Totem Barbarian with that AC. I can't imagine much could kill them.
Don't forget the ability for Barbarians to use shields too, which would stack. So yeah way above 20 at level 1 without much gear cost expenditure. That would make them a better tank than any heavy armor wearer that I can think of. Even ones with the Heavy Armor mastery feat that would make them soak a lot more of the normal damage.
It really makes no sense from a Realism standpoint that a racial AC and a Class based AC don't staack. The racial AC is Biological, which means that you would always have it, and the class one for Monks and Barbs is learned. You would think that being naturally harder to hurt as a species would make you tougher than the other guy who's skin is softer. If I run a home game, That's how I'm gonna run it. Gameplay balance be damned.
A level 1 Tortle with a +3 mod to Dex & Con would have a starting AC of 23, or 25 with a shield.
Hell, if you're going to ignore obvious rules & rationality, why not just play a Heavy Plating Warforged Barbarian then? AC = 16 + Proficiency + Dex + Con + Shield.
At level 1 you could easily have a +3 to both Dex & Con (or more) for a starting AC of 26. At level 12 you could have 31 AC... and onward. If you think this is silly, congratulations! So does everyone else.
A Tarrasque--the "toughest" creature in existence--has an AC of 25. You think your level 1 Tortle is tougher than that? Riiiight... good luck with that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Hey guys, its been a while for this thread, but i'm about to allow my player to run a Tortle barb with 17 + Con. I'll get back to yall on how that goes
Yeah. when I said I would let the ACs stack, I meant as long as they stayed within the restrictions of the rules for the racial AC. If a Tortle can't get a DEX bonus to AC normally, then it wouldn't get one from stacking with a Barbarian or Monk Unarmored Defense.So, a level 1 Tortle Barb with +3 to CON would have a starting AC of 20 or 22 if (s)he has a shield. A Heavy Plating Warforged Forge Cleric using Blessing of the Forge on its shield has a starting AC of 21 at level 1, so these rules as clarified aren't that bad at all. Also, a Warforged using its Heavy Plating setting counts as wearing armor according to it's racial rules, so it wouldn't benefit form Unarmored Defense anyway, let alone any of the abilities granted from Barbarian Rage, due to it being classified as Heavy Armor(hence the lack of a DEX bonus and needing to have proficiency in Heavy Armor in order to even use the setting). Now, if it was using it's Darkwood Core setting, it counts as not wearing armor. the calculation there is 11+Dex+ proficiency if you can use Light Armor (which Barbarians can). Even if you add that proficiency bonus, you still count as being unarmored, however. An unarmored Warforged barbarian using the rules as I would run them Would have an AC of 11+ DEX + CON+ Proficiency. Assuming a Dex mod of +3 and a Con mod of +3, this would put a level 1 Unarmored Warforged Barbarian at an AC of 19, or 21 if they have a Shield.
It really makes no sense from a Realism standpoint that a racial AC and a Class based AC don't staack. The racial AC is Biological, which means that you would always have it, and the class one for Monks and Barbs is learned. You would think that being naturally harder to hurt as a species would make you tougher than the other guy who's skin is softer. If I run a home game, That's how I'm gonna run it. Gameplay balance be damned.
A level 1 Tortle with a +3 mod to Dex & Con would have a starting AC of 23, or 25 with a shield.
Hell, if you're going to ignore obvious rules & rationality, why not just play a Heavy Plating Warforged Barbarian then? AC = 16 + Proficiency + Dex + Con + Shield.
At level 1 you could easily have a +3 to both Dex & Con (or more) for a starting AC of 26. At level 12 you could have 31 AC... and onward. If you think this is silly, congratulations! So does everyone else.
A Tarrasque--the "toughest" creature in existence--has an AC of 25. You think your level 1 Tortle is tougher than that? Riiiight... good luck with that.
Yeah. when I said I would let the ACs stack, I meant as long as they stayed within the restrictions of the rules for the racial AC. If a Tortle can't get a DEX bonus to AC normally, then it wouldn't get one from stacking with a Barbarian or Monk Unarmored Defense.So, a level 1 Tortle Barb with +3 to CON would have a starting AC of 20 or 22 if (s)he has a shield. A Heavy Plating Warforged Forge Cleric using Blessing of the Forge on its shield has a starting AC of 21 at level 1, so these rules as clarified aren't that bad at all. Also, a Warforged using its Heavy Plating setting counts as wearing armor according to it's racial rules, so it wouldn't benefit form Unarmored Defense anyway, let alone any of the abilities granted from Barbarian Rage, due to it being classified as Heavy Armor(hence the lack of a DEX bonus and needing to have proficiency in Heavy Armor in order to even use the setting). Now, if it was using it's Darkwood Core setting, it counts as not wearing armor. the calculation there is 11+Dex+ proficiency if you can use Light Armor (which Barbarians can). Even if you add that proficiency bonus, you still count as being unarmored, however. An unarmored Warforged barbarian using the rules as I would run them Would have an AC of 11+ DEX + CON+ Proficiency. Assuming a Dex mod of +3 and a Con mod of +3, this would put a level 1 Unarmored Warforged Barbarian at an AC of 19, or 21 if they have a Shield.
And now you should understand why a Tortle doesn't benefit from Unarmored Defense if it is choosing to use the Natural Armor AC calculation. 👍
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
A Heavy Plating Warforged Forge Cleric using Blessing of the Forge on its shield has a starting AC of 21 at level 1, so these rules as clarified aren't that bad at all.
Except Blessing of the Forge cannot be used on a shield.
Blessing of the Forge
At 1st level, you gain the ability to imbue magic into a weapon or armor. At the end of a long rest, you can touch one nonmagical object that is a suit of armor or a simple or martial weapon. Until the end of your next long rest or until you die, the object becomes a magic item, granting a +1 bonus to AC if it’s armor or a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls if it’s a weapon.
So, I was checking out the new Tortle race option and it has this ability:
Natural Armor
Due to your shell and the shape of your body, you are ill-suited to wearing armor. Your shell provides ample protection, however; it gives you a base AC of 17 (your Dexterity modifier doesn’t affect this number). You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield’s bonus as normal.
Now, because of this I could see most people not taking any armor at all. This would synergize really well with barbarians, as they benefit from a lack of armor. However, they have this ability:
Unarmored Defense
While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.
I was wondering exactly how these two abilities work with each other. Do you just decided which one you want? Or do you combine the two by adding your CON to your natural armor?
Just curious how you guys would handle this?
Feature Requests || Homebrew FAQ || Pricing FAQ || Hardcovers FAQ || Snippet Codes || Tooltips
DDB Guides & FAQs, Class Guides, Character Builds, Game Guides, Useful Websites, and WOTC Resources
Okay, I just wasnt sure if you had to pick which one or try to combine them. Thanks for the information!
I could just imagine someone loading a tortle barbarian into a catapult and launching him into the enemy and him popping out after landing and tearing it up.
Must try...
Go Storm Herald Desert to make him resistant to fire damage and douse him with oil and light him up first. Go for some serious intimidation.
It really makes no sense from a Realism standpoint that a racial AC and a Class based AC don't staack. The racial AC is Biological, which means that you would always have it, and the class one for Monks and Barbs is learned. You would think that being naturally harder to hurt as a species would make you tougher than the other guy who's skin is softer. If I run a home game, That's how I'm gonna run it. Gameplay balance be damned.
It makes no sense from a realism standpoint that dragons breathe fire/acid/frost etc and that people can heal from the the edge of death with an overnight rest.
It's a game and the game world isn't supposed to be the exact same as our own world. 😊
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
So you would happily give a Tortle Barbarian an AC calculation of 17 + Dex + Con? They could easily have 23 AC at level 1 - slowly increasing passed 30 with magic items by max level. Good luck trying to hit them with anything.
Just imagine a Tortle Bear-Totem Barbarian with that AC. I can't imagine much could kill them.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Would homebrew something. Most likely AC=15+Con for barbarian and 15+wis for monk.
Don't forget the ability for Barbarians to use shields too, which would stack. So yeah way above 20 at level 1 without much gear cost expenditure. That would make them a better tank than any heavy armor wearer that I can think of. Even ones with the Heavy Armor mastery feat that would make them soak a lot more of the normal damage.
A level 1 Tortle with a +3 mod to Dex & Con would have a starting AC of 23, or 25 with a shield.
Hell, if you're going to ignore obvious rules & rationality, why not just play a Heavy Plating Warforged Barbarian then? AC = 16 + Proficiency + Dex + Con + Shield.
At level 1 you could easily have a +3 to both Dex & Con (or more) for a starting AC of 26. At level 12 you could have 31 AC... and onward. If you think this is silly, congratulations! So does everyone else.
A Tarrasque--the "toughest" creature in existence--has an AC of 25. You think your level 1 Tortle is tougher than that? Riiiight... good luck with that.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Most I'd do is 17+con, or 12+dex+con.
Definitely not 17+dex+con, that makes as much sense as including dex with plate mail.
Hey guys, its been a while for this thread, but i'm about to allow my player to run a Tortle barb with 17 + Con. I'll get back to yall on how that goes
Yeah. when I said I would let the ACs stack, I meant as long as they stayed within the restrictions of the rules for the racial AC. If a Tortle can't get a DEX bonus to AC normally, then it wouldn't get one from stacking with a Barbarian or Monk Unarmored Defense.So, a level 1 Tortle Barb with +3 to CON would have a starting AC of 20 or 22 if (s)he has a shield. A Heavy Plating Warforged Forge Cleric using Blessing of the Forge on its shield has a starting AC of 21 at level 1, so these rules as clarified aren't that bad at all. Also, a Warforged using its Heavy Plating setting counts as wearing armor according to it's racial rules, so it wouldn't benefit form Unarmored Defense anyway, let alone any of the abilities granted from Barbarian Rage, due to it being classified as Heavy Armor(hence the lack of a DEX bonus and needing to have proficiency in Heavy Armor in order to even use the setting). Now, if it was using it's Darkwood Core setting, it counts as not wearing armor. the calculation there is 11+Dex+ proficiency if you can use Light Armor (which Barbarians can). Even if you add that proficiency bonus, you still count as being unarmored, however. An unarmored Warforged barbarian using the rules as I would run them Would have an AC of 11+ DEX + CON+ Proficiency. Assuming a Dex mod of +3 and a Con mod of +3, this would put a level 1 Unarmored Warforged Barbarian at an AC of 19, or 21 if they have a Shield.
Welcome to the wonderful world of 'more complicated than it needs to be'.
And now you should understand why a Tortle doesn't benefit from Unarmored Defense if it is choosing to use the Natural Armor AC calculation. 👍
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Except Blessing of the Forge cannot be used on a shield.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Then they would have to use it on their Heavy Plating. either way, same effect.