Hey everyone, I know this post is kind of late, but since you were all following the post and leaving advice I thought I'd update you on the situation involving the problem player.
First, to summarize for anyone reading this post without seeing the one that preceeds this, one of the original group members when I first started this campaign was using his character to live out megalomaniacal fantasies and I gave him SOME leeway because he was willing to play by the rules such as taking turns in combat, accepting when his attack rolls missed or he didn't meet the DC check for a skill. However, after he left to start an internship program in another city, he took things too far when he didn't communicate properly and told me and my friend who helps co-DM to do whatever we felt like.
We made him a war criminal who'd fled to the continent from overseas and the authorities had finally caught up with him for extradition. One of the other members of the group decided to text him this and he flipped out, screaming, ranting and of course telling us we were bad DMs and demanded we change his write out immediately. Well, I agreed with everyone that this was problematic behavior which leads me to the update:
The guy was a college student for a local disability program for young adults and they have mentors who help the people with developmental disabilities (the program is open to all disabled adults looking for an independent lifestyle, including physical disabilities) with their social behaviors. And this guy's mentor is more or less the program's liasion to the group. Well I explained the situation to him and why it was uncalled for and he called up the student and spoke with him.
Now this is the point where I kinda had to respectfully disagree with the student's reason attempting to justify what he did: "You know him. How did you not know he was joking when he behaved that way?" EXCUSE ME? The guy throws a massive temper tantrum and tries to make me and my friend the bad guy for his lack of communication and I should just accept that he was just playing? Look, I can admittedly take SOME blame that I didn't clarify before doing this right out such as say "Are you sure you're ok with us doing as we please? You don't have ANY special requests," as I should have done to avoid this situation, however, I feel that the player was still out of line in his behavior and simply asking if he could me later to discuss why he didn't like it was the correct way to go.
And now a confession that I left out of the the original post: In an attempt to defuse the situation and get this ex-player to stop blowing up the player at the table's phone, I told him to send a text saying "We'll make you a boss at some point in the future" to which the response was "Thank you."
Full honesty? I'm kinda thinking that if I honor that, I will be normalizing bad behavior that has no place at the D&D table so I'm actually considering leaving the original write out where he was extradited to stand trial intact, without making a him a boss later on, as a form of punishment to show that the way he behaved will NOT be tolerated by me and my co-DM, who also hosts the game because my place isn't big enough to do so.
I don't want to be a bad DM by making promises to my players I won't keep but I also don't want to be a bad DM by rewarding that kind of behavior as well. Anyway, that's the update for you. If I disappear for the rest of the day and tomorrow, I've been invited to holiday parties by some friends and will, at some point, not be near my computer, so if I'm delayed in responding to posts at all, that's why.
Anyway, I hope everyone's enjoying the December Holiday season and that you all have a safe and happy new year.
The next time a player says "Do whatever you want to write my character out" ask for clarification before coming up with anything and remind them "Do whatever you want means you're giving me the final say, so if you're gonna regret that speak now or forever hold your peace." Cause that IS how I would say it.
I get not "rewarding that kind of behavior," but be careful with "punishment" talk. the last thing you want is to end up apologizing for for putting yourself in a parental/authority role or going too far or something. if you don't end up making the guy a boss, then it just doesn't happen. there not always time for every cool thing that could happen. life goes on.
also, my follow-up question to "do whatever with my character" would be 'what if they retire and begin farming?' if the player is not okay with their character becoming boring, then they're not going to be okay with most other changes either. sometimes "whatever" is short for "as long as my legend keeps growing in an awesome direction."
You didn't say when you'd make their ex-character a NPC. In 6 months, no one is likely to care and if someone asks you will likely be able to honestly say you forgot if enough time has passed. Alternatively, you can mention that there hasn't been a good point in the plot for it. The only issue you might run into is if the player returns and wants to play again.
However, people should never confuse the real world with the gaming table. You should never "reward" or "punish" real world behaviour using in game/in character actions. There should be no connection. The game is the game, the real world is the real world. The only common element is the same people are participating. However, real world behaviour needs to be dealt with in the real world with real conversations and discussions. Character actions happen in the game world.
If a player has their character take in game actions that bother another player in the real world then that needs to be resolved with a real world discussion about what the players consider appropriate in game behaviour. On the other hand, if another character is bothered by a character's actions then that can and should be resolved in game though might merit a session 0 discussion of PVP and what the player's consider reasonable.
P.S. Finally, from your comments, it sounds like the person in question is a member of a group with developmental disabilities focused on working on social behaviours. The person had a mentor whom you contacted and who subsequently spoke with the student. Although being a member of a group requiring help with social interactions doesn't justify negative behaviour, it might make it a bit less surprising that the reaction wasn't what you expected and might make one ask why you didn't look for more clarification when working with someone whose communication skills might need work.
Your previous thread on this player failed to mention that there may be a developmental disability component to this whole situation. That changes things dramatically. I don't think you are a bad DM, like you asked in the previous thread, but I do think you are ill-equipped to be a DM for someone who may be neurodivergent or have some other condition that affects how they see and interact with the world. With their (implied) disability in mind, I do think there is some critically needed introspection to be done on your part based on what I am seeing between the two threads.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form| Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock | He/Him/They/Them
The next time a player says "Do whatever you want to write my character out" ask for clarification before coming up with anything and remind them "Do whatever you want means you're giving me the final say, so if you're gonna regret that speak now or forever hold your peace." Cause that IS how I would say it.
Not the lesson i would have picked up. Not only should you not have asked you could have avoided the entire episode by just saying your character leaves party to pursue his own interests
I don't want to be a bad DM by making promises to my players I won't keep but I also don't want to be a bad DM by rewarding that kind of behavior as well.
He isn't your player anymore; your commitment to him and his character is over. He also isn't around to be rewarded, and any messages you send about what behavior you will or won't tolerate are irrelevant for him. Time to focus on moving the story forward for the players you do have.
Also, if your motivation for this villain arc stems from good-natured creativity, that's one thing. But given the strong and lingering emotions in your posts, I'm wondering if this future boss idea isn't an outlet for personal feelings over how you were treated. If so...that's not cool. It's never wise to address out-of-game issues with in-game events. It's a form of metagaming that often just perpetuates problems instead of solving them.
If you want to send a message to your current players about what you will or won't tolerate, check in with your co-DM and have another mini session zero to lay out your expectations clearly. And if this situation continues to eat away at you, maybe it's best to step back and let your co-DM take the wheel for a little while until you put it behind you. It's normal for players to frustrate us from time to time, and if we're in emotional react mode instead of collected respond mode, it only makes the DM job that much harder and less fun. And we all know that if the DM isn't having fun, pretty soon no one will...
Good luck, and I hope your holiday parties were a 10/10.
This is an ex-player. He is not just pining for the fjords. Forget this guy exists, and if he phones you or anyone in the group, simply hang up. Do nothing with this ex-PC. Simply have it disappear from memory.
As a multi decade DM Theologyofbagels and Justafarmer (above posts) hit it on the head. Just read those two posts till you let it go. When something is no longer fun. It's no longer worth pursuing. Nothing more to be said
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Hey everyone, I know this post is kind of late, but since you were all following the post and leaving advice I thought I'd update you on the situation involving the problem player.
First, to summarize for anyone reading this post without seeing the one that preceeds this, one of the original group members when I first started this campaign was using his character to live out megalomaniacal fantasies and I gave him SOME leeway because he was willing to play by the rules such as taking turns in combat, accepting when his attack rolls missed or he didn't meet the DC check for a skill. However, after he left to start an internship program in another city, he took things too far when he didn't communicate properly and told me and my friend who helps co-DM to do whatever we felt like.
We made him a war criminal who'd fled to the continent from overseas and the authorities had finally caught up with him for extradition. One of the other members of the group decided to text him this and he flipped out, screaming, ranting and of course telling us we were bad DMs and demanded we change his write out immediately. Well, I agreed with everyone that this was problematic behavior which leads me to the update:
The guy was a college student for a local disability program for young adults and they have mentors who help the people with developmental disabilities (the program is open to all disabled adults looking for an independent lifestyle, including physical disabilities) with their social behaviors. And this guy's mentor is more or less the program's liasion to the group. Well I explained the situation to him and why it was uncalled for and he called up the student and spoke with him.
Now this is the point where I kinda had to respectfully disagree with the student's reason attempting to justify what he did: "You know him. How did you not know he was joking when he behaved that way?" EXCUSE ME? The guy throws a massive temper tantrum and tries to make me and my friend the bad guy for his lack of communication and I should just accept that he was just playing? Look, I can admittedly take SOME blame that I didn't clarify before doing this right out such as say "Are you sure you're ok with us doing as we please? You don't have ANY special requests," as I should have done to avoid this situation, however, I feel that the player was still out of line in his behavior and simply asking if he could me later to discuss why he didn't like it was the correct way to go.
And now a confession that I left out of the the original post: In an attempt to defuse the situation and get this ex-player to stop blowing up the player at the table's phone, I told him to send a text saying "We'll make you a boss at some point in the future" to which the response was "Thank you."
Full honesty? I'm kinda thinking that if I honor that, I will be normalizing bad behavior that has no place at the D&D table so I'm actually considering leaving the original write out where he was extradited to stand trial intact, without making a him a boss later on, as a form of punishment to show that the way he behaved will NOT be tolerated by me and my co-DM, who also hosts the game because my place isn't big enough to do so.
I don't want to be a bad DM by making promises to my players I won't keep but I also don't want to be a bad DM by rewarding that kind of behavior as well. Anyway, that's the update for you. If I disappear for the rest of the day and tomorrow, I've been invited to holiday parties by some friends and will, at some point, not be near my computer, so if I'm delayed in responding to posts at all, that's why.
Anyway, I hope everyone's enjoying the December Holiday season and that you all have a safe and happy new year.
What Have you learned from the situation and its fallout?
Rule Zero: Make the game your own
The next time a player says "Do whatever you want to write my character out" ask for clarification before coming up with anything and remind them "Do whatever you want means you're giving me the final say, so if you're gonna regret that speak now or forever hold your peace." Cause that IS how I would say it.
I get not "rewarding that kind of behavior," but be careful with "punishment" talk. the last thing you want is to end up apologizing for for putting yourself in a parental/authority role or going too far or something. if you don't end up making the guy a boss, then it just doesn't happen. there not always time for every cool thing that could happen. life goes on.
also, my follow-up question to "do whatever with my character" would be 'what if they retire and begin farming?' if the player is not okay with their character becoming boring, then they're not going to be okay with most other changes either. sometimes "whatever" is short for "as long as my legend keeps growing in an awesome direction."
You didn't say when you'd make their ex-character a NPC. In 6 months, no one is likely to care and if someone asks you will likely be able to honestly say you forgot if enough time has passed. Alternatively, you can mention that there hasn't been a good point in the plot for it. The only issue you might run into is if the player returns and wants to play again.
However, people should never confuse the real world with the gaming table. You should never "reward" or "punish" real world behaviour using in game/in character actions. There should be no connection. The game is the game, the real world is the real world. The only common element is the same people are participating. However, real world behaviour needs to be dealt with in the real world with real conversations and discussions. Character actions happen in the game world.
If a player has their character take in game actions that bother another player in the real world then that needs to be resolved with a real world discussion about what the players consider appropriate in game behaviour. On the other hand, if another character is bothered by a character's actions then that can and should be resolved in game though might merit a session 0 discussion of PVP and what the player's consider reasonable.
P.S. Finally, from your comments, it sounds like the person in question is a member of a group with developmental disabilities focused on working on social behaviours. The person had a mentor whom you contacted and who subsequently spoke with the student. Although being a member of a group requiring help with social interactions doesn't justify negative behaviour, it might make it a bit less surprising that the reaction wasn't what you expected and might make one ask why you didn't look for more clarification when working with someone whose communication skills might need work.
Your previous thread on this player failed to mention that there may be a developmental disability component to this whole situation. That changes things dramatically. I don't think you are a bad DM, like you asked in the previous thread, but I do think you are ill-equipped to be a DM for someone who may be neurodivergent or have some other condition that affects how they see and interact with the world. With their (implied) disability in mind, I do think there is some critically needed introspection to be done on your part based on what I am seeing between the two threads.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock | He/Him/They/Them
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Not the lesson i would have picked up. Not only should you not have asked you could have avoided the entire episode by just saying your character leaves party to pursue his own interests
Rule Zero: Make the game your own
He isn't your player anymore; your commitment to him and his character is over. He also isn't around to be rewarded, and any messages you send about what behavior you will or won't tolerate are irrelevant for him. Time to focus on moving the story forward for the players you do have.
Also, if your motivation for this villain arc stems from good-natured creativity, that's one thing. But given the strong and lingering emotions in your posts, I'm wondering if this future boss idea isn't an outlet for personal feelings over how you were treated. If so...that's not cool. It's never wise to address out-of-game issues with in-game events. It's a form of metagaming that often just perpetuates problems instead of solving them.
If you want to send a message to your current players about what you will or won't tolerate, check in with your co-DM and have another mini session zero to lay out your expectations clearly. And if this situation continues to eat away at you, maybe it's best to step back and let your co-DM take the wheel for a little while until you put it behind you. It's normal for players to frustrate us from time to time, and if we're in emotional react mode instead of collected respond mode, it only makes the DM job that much harder and less fun. And we all know that if the DM isn't having fun, pretty soon no one will...
Good luck, and I hope your holiday parties were a 10/10.
This is an ex-player. He is not just pining for the fjords. Forget this guy exists, and if he phones you or anyone in the group, simply hang up. Do nothing with this ex-PC. Simply have it disappear from memory.
As a multi decade DM Theologyofbagels and Justafarmer (above posts) hit it on the head. Just read those two posts till you let it go. When something is no longer fun. It's no longer worth pursuing. Nothing more to be said