I already did the introductions on the Open Hand thread, so let's just dive directly into the shadow of the "ninja" monk, the Way of Shadow / Warrior of Shadow:
Level 3
5e version: Shadow Arts: As an action, you can spend 2 ki points to cast darkness, darkvision, pass without trace, or silence, without providing material components. Additionally, you gain the minor illusion cantrip if you don't already know it.
Interesting selection of spells (there's no base class that has access to all 4 of them without multiclassing or an expanded spell list), but the cost is a bit too high at level 3, you can only cast them once per short rest (except minor illusion). I will admit that the lack of Devil's Sight or Blindsight for the darkness you cast is a bit dissapointing, you cannot abuse Darkness the same way a Warlock would, but its use is most suited for escape (as the typical ninja smoke bomb) or confusing enemies. Pass without Trace was incredible for infiltration or surprise rounds (if your DM would run them correctly). Silence can shutdown casters, but apparently there are monk-hating DMs who would always make sure that spellcasters had access to Subtle spell to always teleport out of your non-V-component area.
OneDnd version: Shadow Arts: You gain the following benefits:
Darkness: You can spend 1 Discipline Point to cast the Darkness spell without any spell components. You can see within the spell's area when you cast it with this feature. While the spell persists, you can move its area of darkness to a space within 60 feet of you at the start of each of your turns.
Darkvision: You gain Darkvision with a range of 60 feet. If you already have Darkvision, its range increases by 60 feet.
Shadowy Figments: You know the Minor Illusion cantrip and use Wisdom as the spellcasting ability for it.
Let's take the negatives out of the way quickly, Pass without Trace and Silence are gone. It doesn't hurt the monk itself so much, but maybe your party was really dependin on your PwT for stealth whilst using heavy armor, no proficiency at Stealth and a +0 Dex... Yeah, let's go to the positives that really outweigh the negatives. First Darkness only cost 1 DP (so I guess 1 DP is equal to a level 2 spell slot); second, you can see through your own Darkness (ask the Warlock if this isn't great); third, you can move the darkness for free with no action (I suspect this was to deal with the usual "Darkness messes your own party more than your enemies!!!" argument); and last, you have Darkvision as a trait now, not as a spell (simple and effective). I know you could always move your darkness by casting it on an object you are holding (you still can), but I suspect this was to avoid item juggling during battle (maybe? I'm not sure). Picking a "winner" here is basically weighing the spell lost to all the improvements Darkness got, and I'll go with OneDnd version here.
Level 6
5e version: When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.
I'll admit that the first time I read this I thought I was reading a Rogue subclass and that feeling only got stronger the further down I went on with the subclass, good thing Shadow Arts was there to remind me this was a monk. Now onto the feature itself, it's great (IMO the best feature of this subclass), needing only a bonus action and dim light or darkess, you have access to unlimited teleportation along with advantage for your first attack. Don't let the advantage trick you into thinking this can only be used offensively, you can also use it to retreat should the need arise, and (most importantly) for exploration and infiltration. Heck, you can carry a parasol as your portable teleport target. My DM once told me "chasing a monk is not easy and if that monk is a shadow monk, then don't even bother thinking you will ever get them much less keep them restrained." and I agree.
OneDnd version: Shadow Step: *Almost exactly the same as the 5e version, only difference is the phrasing for Dim Light and Darkness.*
Surprisingly, there were no changes here, which lets me draw 2 conclusions: First, the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." applies here. Second, there teams handling Shadow and Elements different from the ones handling the base class and Hand. The new phrasing for Dim Light/Darkness might have something to do with DMs having to redefine what Dim Light is so that Shadow Step can't be abused that much, I mean, I get it, but sorry, no matter how much you complain under no circumstances you can call a shadow of any opacity Bright Light, deal with it (and also check if you can find the Gloomstalker by adjusting the lights). There's no winner here since both features are almost the same word by word.
Level 11
5e version: Cloak of Shadows: When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible. You remain invisible until you make an attack, cast a spell, or are in an area of bright light.
An unlimited access to invisibility is nice (and I feel the Rogue here again), albeit this one comes with restrictions, understandably so. It boost combat exploration and infiltration. Only downside is that it takes an action, if it were a bonus action it would have let the Ro- I mean the Monk make at least 1 attack with advantage, although that part is redundant since Shadow Step covered that already, so this is not really a combat feature, and that being the case, it's not bad at all.
OneDnd version: Improved Shadow Step: When you use your Shadow Step, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to remove the Dim Light or Dakness requirement from your starting point (your target location must still be in Dim Light or Darkness). As part of this Bonus Action, you can make an Unarmed Strike immediately after the teleportation.
Your DM still does not let you use Shadow Step even when you are clearly covered by shadows? Fret not, for 1 DP you can now teleport from the sun if you want (and you can see a spot in Dim Light or Darkness), you can even be at a sunny beach and teleport back to your parasol. Also as if to adress the "damage loss" from bonus action teleporting, instead of MA bonus attack or FoB, Shadow Step now allows you to attack the moment you teleport in the same bonus action (so there's no longer any need to use the MA bonus attack) and this one can even be used before you take an action (you can even dodge after your attack if you want). Something I don't think is clear is if you need to use the DP to trigger the Unarmed Strike or if you can still use it if you use the original Shadow Step. I think it needed to be separated into different bullets to make it clear if the DP cost is tied to the Unarmed Strike or not. I know that Cloak of Shadows was moved to level 17, so a comparisson between the original Cloak and Improved Shadow Step may not seem fair, and they do completely different things, but I'll judge them as level 11 features; and I say that improving the best feature of the subclass is enough to put OneDnD version above 5e at this spot.
Level 17
5e version: Opportunist: Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you is hit by an attack made by a creature other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against that creature.
So I didn't use Cunning Action to disengage (since I'm dual wielding), nor did I take Mobile, or maybe I'm invisible waiting for my melee partner to run in so that I can land a Sneak Attack outside my turn. That's great... as a Rogue, as a Monk, a single reaction attack will not have such impact. Don't get me wrong, it is more damage, but this is not good enough for a monk subclass capstone (and arguably as a Rogue one as well).
OneDnd version: Cloak of Shadows: As a bonus action, while entirely within Dim Light or Darkness, you can spend 3 Discipline Points to shroud yourself in magical darkness for 1 minute, until you are Incapacitated or you end your turn in Bright Light. While shrouded by this darkness, you gain the following benefits:
Invisibility: You have the Invisible condition.
Partially Incorporeal: You can move through creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain, but you take 1d10 Force damage if you end your turn inside a creature or an object.
Shadow Flurry: You can use your Flurry of Blows without spending any Discipline Points.
Cloak of Shadows got moved to level 17, is it a good capstone now? Let's see. Again, let's deal with the negatives first, 3 DP cost means that it is no longer unlimited (although it seems to be the standard cost for monk capstones now), and its max duration is 1 minute, it can end early if incapacitated (I hated this on Astral Self, but this one is not that expensive at least). Now for the positives, your invisibility does not end if you so dare take a step into Bright Light (your DM's embers of a bonfire will not make you visible anymore), you only need to end your turn in Dim Light or Darkness, and that is what your Shadow Arts are there for. Going ghost for a minute is cool and the damage you might take is barely noticable at this point and considering your mobility is the highest of all other classes that get a feature like this, you can go through many other creatures/objects without worry (I guess no place is safe from you unless is fully illuminated with no trace of a shadow in sight). Lastly, FoB for free, umm sure it's good, but why here? This is something the Hand monk would have killed to get, heck if I had to pick between the new Quivering Palm and only unlimited FoB, you bet I'd pick FoB every single time. Let's adress 2 issues that this capstone has that may not be apparent at first glance, first Shadow Flurry can't be used on the same turn you activate Cloak of Shadows, so you get at most 9 uses of free FoB. Second, Shadow Step now competes with Cloak for your bonus action and later with Shadow Flurry, although they can be used alternatively so this is not a problem(Shadow Step for enemies that can still sense your location and Shadow Flurry for those who cannot). Though a bit clunky, OneDnd clearly has a better capstone than 5e.
UA8 Monk update:
Shadow Arts: The new version of Martial Arts' additional unarmed strike and Flurry of Blows can be used without taking any action before, so a Shadow monk can still attack on the turn it casts Darkness (though Improved Shadow Step already allowed this, Shadow monk doesn't get it until level 11).
Shadow Step & Improved Shadow Step: These didn't get affected directly, but now the player can now surprise grapple using Dex, for those people who like to grapple...
Cloak of Shadows: Shadow Flurry got directly improved thanks to Heightened Discipline adding an extra unarmed strike to FoB. I guess that since new Stunning Strike is worth the attempt per turn (it's either extra damage or stun), Shadow monks can use both FoB and Stunning Strike together without worrying about added costs.
It's a bit hard to tell which one is more effective resource-wise, 5e has only 1 feature that costs ki points (2 for any casting of spells) while OneDnD has 3 (1 for casting Darkness, 1 for Improved Shadow Step and 3 for Cloak of Shadows), also considering that both versions are more focused on Dex builds, Stunning Strike is rarely going to be used. Considering that OneDnd does want to spend DP on all of its features, and 5e will mostly use ki ponits only for casting along with Tasha's Ki-Fueled Strike allowing additional attacks after casting. Victory on this regard goes to 5e version, by a very narrow margin (because every DP spent by OneDnd Shadow is really impactful). UA8 monk update: given how DP can get recharged more easily now, DP effectiveness goes up in OneDnD.
In conclusion, OneDnd version really pulls ahead, especially considering that all of its features work really well together (even on the capstone 1st turn), IMO it's the best monk now (it was always top 3, now it's the top 1). 5e version is not bad, but as monk subclass it does not work as well as the new version. I'll say it again, it may have been better as a rogue subclass rather than a monk.
They definitely did a good job with this one. The loss of Path without trace and silence is a bit of a bummer but I think the rest makes up for it. The subclass feels more cohesive along all levels. If they keep it as is for release I will be satisfied.
Pass Without Trace may have been used and abused to set up surprise rounds, but DMs may have problem dealing with those because they can trivialize combat a lot easier than an always landing Stunning Strike: players start asking if they have advantage because the target is surprised, if they can position themselves anywhere on the field, if they are still an unseen attacker even if they go straight from the front, etc.. Interestingly enough, the new shadow monk has a textbook definition of surprise attack with the Improved Shadow Step, regardless of how a DM runs player surprise rounds, they can't help but allow the teleport and attack happening at the same time, with advantage and with no set-up (maybe adding the invisibility from Cloak of Shadows will be overkill for your DM). As for Silence... I don't know why it was removed, perhaps WotC wanted the Shadow monk to focus on shadows and darkness? I'm fine with that, the subclass works wonderfully even without those 2 spells, let the casters that have access to them actually bother taking them.
Here's the thing about shadow monk. Yes it's better by far now but my issue with it is still a thing; it essentially trys to be a rogue without the actual benefits of being a rogue. Sure you're sneaky as hell, but to what end? Without expertise, you're not as reliable of an infiltrator / scout to deal with things like picking locks or disarming traps. Without sneak attack, you're going to emerge from the shadows to tickle an enemy where the rogue would slaughter them.
I think this class just needs a defining role within the party that doesn't infringe on typical rogue niches. One idea I had was using the darkness and mind ****ery theme to sew chaos rather than direct rogue type infiltration or assassination.
One idea I had was confusion. An enemy that ends 2 or more consecutive turns in your darkness must make a wisdom saving throw or be confused as if by the confusion spell. Or possibly just Enemies hit by your flurry of blows while in the darkness make that save.
Frightened / fear are other options that could be played with.
If not that that just SOMETHING. give the monk a niche for actually using the darkness that's not just being hidden.
I don't like grappling builds, but if you want a 'niche' or alternative playstyle for a shadow monk, that'd be grappling.
AC's barely a problem since you are meant to be in your Darkness and Stunning Strike is really not worth the cost, so you can just make do without a high Wis. Now you want a high Str for grappling and that's fine, you don't need both Dex and Str for this build. If you are really worried about your AC you can get armor proficiency (from multiclassing or a feat) and be done with it, the only thing affected by armor in this build would be your martial arts die and your unarmored movement, everything else on this subclass is completely independant. What's more, from level 11 you can teleport AND grapple on the same turn thanks to the new generic unarmed strikes rules, so far there's no other class or subclass that can do this. I guess it sounds fun, your enemy can't see anything and can't escape this darkness after a mysterious (and probably unseen as well) creature suddenly appeared out of thin air and locked them in place. Granted, you'd be dealing only 1+STR of damage this way, but you can afford other feats like grappler, and you can still use your weapons if you want, there's nothing stopping you from doing so.
I don't like grappling builds, but if you want a 'niche' or alternative playstyle for a shadow monk, that'd be grappling.
AC's barely a problem since you are meant to be in your Darkness and Stunning Strike is really not worth the cost, so you can just make do without a high Wis. Now you want a high Str for grappling and that's fine, you don't need both Dex and Str for this build. If you are really worried about your AC you can get armor proficiency (from multiclassing or a feat) and be done with it, the only thing affected by armor in this build would be your martial arts die and your unarmored movement, everything else on this subclass is completely independant. What's more, from level 11 you can teleport AND grapple on the same turn thanks to the new generic unarmed strikes rules, so far there's no other class or subclass that can do this. I guess it sounds fun, your enemy can't see anything and can't escape this darkness after a mysterious (and probably unseen as well) creature suddenly appeared out of thin air and locked them in place. Granted, you'd be dealing only 1+STR of damage this way, but you can afford other feats like grappler, and you can still use your weapons if you want, there's nothing stopping you from doing so.
That'll be a no from me boss, I'm not trying to sacrifice half of the monk's kit to try and grapple. If I wanted that I'd just go with astral self.
I don't like grappling builds, but if you want a 'niche' or alternative playstyle for a shadow monk, that'd be grappling.
AC's barely a problem since you are meant to be in your Darkness and Stunning Strike is really not worth the cost, so you can just make do without a high Wis. Now you want a high Str for grappling and that's fine, you don't need both Dex and Str for this build. If you are really worried about your AC you can get armor proficiency (from multiclassing or a feat) and be done with it, the only thing affected by armor in this build would be your martial arts die and your unarmored movement, everything else on this subclass is completely independant. What's more, from level 11 you can teleport AND grapple on the same turn thanks to the new generic unarmed strikes rules, so far there's no other class or subclass that can do this. I guess it sounds fun, your enemy can't see anything and can't escape this darkness after a mysterious (and probably unseen as well) creature suddenly appeared out of thin air and locked them in place. Granted, you'd be dealing only 1+STR of damage this way, but you can afford other feats like grappler, and you can still use your weapons if you want, there's nothing stopping you from doing so.
That'll be a no from me boss, I'm not trying to sacrifice half of the monk's kit to try and grapple. If I wanted that I'd just go with astral self.
Astral won’t help you in 1DD, which we are talking about as grappling is part of an unarmed strike and the target gets a saving throw. It’s not an ability check like 5E currently. Unless I am misunderstanding what you’re saying.
i honestly dont even remember my train of thought when i posted that... you were in another thread recently where you noted that most of my concerns have been addressed in the current 1dd playtest for monk so right now im pretty happy where the class is going.
Personally, I hate darkness/devilsight combos and this is basically an entire subclass that revolves around making that happen. There are better ways to give yourself advantage on attacks while forcing enemies to have disadvantage on you that don't screw your party too. I would hate playing with one of these in the party. It would almost necessitate getting devilsight somehow.
Also, this is basically a subclass that will require the DM to make changes to encounters to make them interesting. Just casting darkness on everything every encounter as an 'I win' button gets real old real fast for everyone at the table, including the one abusing it. The DM will have to start using monsters and abilities that mitigate this which then basically makes this subclass bad.
I think this is a huge step in the wrong direction. This is taking my favorite subclass for monks and turning it likely into the most annoying.
I understand not liking the Darkness/Devilsight combo, but the way I see it, Shadow monks get more uses out of their Darkness than before (it is also there so that your DM doesn't have to handle "bright" shadows and shadows dark enough to teleport into). If Darkness screws over the party now, it was even worse in 5e when the monk couldn't see through it unless it spent feats or levels in other classes just to make use of it.
And if it still gets in the way, Darkness can be cast on a coin or any other tiny object that can be completely covered by clenching a fist, considering how weapon swapping works in the playtest, it wouldn't be too farfetched to have a Darkness on/off switch by closing and opening your hand, would it?
I'm not saying you have to like it, but I wouldn't say it's that much of a problem for the party. I mean, if the party knows the Shadow monk will (or rather 'can', it doesn't have to) use Darkness, then they can plan ahead to minimize the impact Darkness will have over them (and if they were already capable of pulling that combo on their own, they can also reap its benefits).
I understand not liking the Darkness/Devilsight combo, but the way I see it, Shadow monks get more uses out of their Darkness than before (it is also there so that your DM doesn't have to handle "bright" shadows and shadows dark enough to teleport into). If Darkness screws over the party now, it was even worse in 5e when the monk couldn't see through it unless it spent feats or levels in other classes just to make use of it.
And if it still gets in the way, Darkness can be cast on a coin or any other tiny object that can be completely covered by clenching a fist, considering how weapon swapping works in the playtest, it wouldn't be too farfetched to have a Darkness on/off switch by closing and opening your hand, would it?
I'm not saying you have to like it, but I wouldn't say it's that much of a problem for the party. I mean, if the party knows the Shadow monk will (or rather 'can', it doesn't have to) use Darkness, then they can plan ahead to minimize the impact Darkness will have over them (and if they were already capable of pulling that combo on their own, they can also reap its benefits).
They removed the other spells too though. Options are way more interesting than only getting one option and making it much stronger (while annoying for the party). And if the 1dnd Shadow Monk doesn't use it, then it's honestly not a very good subclass until 17. In fact, it's way worse than the original one. I think when I played my shadow Monk to 15, I only used darkness a few times. I even eventually got something with that gave him true sight and still didn't abuse it because I knew how annoying it was for the party. I found the other spells more interesting in general. Your on/off switch idea might work to mitigate some of what makes it annoying, but it's also nerfing it. Why not just make the monk heavily obscured in magical darkness. It gets advantage on attacks, attacks against it get disadvantage. The difference is it doesn't annoy your party and break combat. You could also retool some of the other abilities to create dim light in other areas for shadow step.
It's not like darkness is bad if it effects everyone including the monk. It's more strategic and difficult to use, but it's not bad.
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I already did the introductions on the Open Hand thread, so let's just dive directly into the shadow of the "ninja" monk, the Way of Shadow / Warrior of Shadow:
Interesting selection of spells (there's no base class that has access to all 4 of them without multiclassing or an expanded spell list), but the cost is a bit too high at level 3, you can only cast them once per short rest (except minor illusion). I will admit that the lack of Devil's Sight or Blindsight for the darkness you cast is a bit dissapointing, you cannot abuse Darkness the same way a Warlock would, but its use is most suited for escape (as the typical ninja smoke bomb) or confusing enemies. Pass without Trace was incredible for infiltration or surprise rounds (if your DM would run them correctly). Silence can shutdown casters, but apparently there are monk-hating DMs who would always make sure that spellcasters had access to Subtle spell to always teleport out of your non-V-component area.
Let's take the negatives out of the way quickly, Pass without Trace and Silence are gone. It doesn't hurt the monk itself so much, but maybe your party was really dependin on your PwT for stealth whilst using heavy armor, no proficiency at Stealth and a +0 Dex... Yeah, let's go to the positives that really outweigh the negatives. First Darkness only cost 1 DP (so I guess 1 DP is equal to a level 2 spell slot); second, you can see through your own Darkness (ask the Warlock if this isn't great); third, you can move the darkness for free with no action (I suspect this was to deal with the usual "Darkness messes your own party more than your enemies!!!" argument); and last, you have Darkvision as a trait now, not as a spell (simple and effective). I know you could always move your darkness by casting it on an object you are holding (you still can), but I suspect this was to avoid item juggling during battle (maybe? I'm not sure). Picking a "winner" here is basically weighing the spell lost to all the improvements Darkness got, and I'll go with OneDnd version here.
I'll admit that the first time I read this I thought I was reading a Rogue subclass and that feeling only got stronger the further down I went on with the subclass, good thing Shadow Arts was there to remind me this was a monk. Now onto the feature itself, it's great (IMO the best feature of this subclass), needing only a bonus action and dim light or darkess, you have access to unlimited teleportation along with advantage for your first attack. Don't let the advantage trick you into thinking this can only be used offensively, you can also use it to retreat should the need arise, and (most importantly) for exploration and infiltration. Heck, you can carry a parasol as your portable teleport target. My DM once told me "chasing a monk is not easy and if that monk is a shadow monk, then don't even bother thinking you will ever get them much less keep them restrained." and I agree.
Surprisingly, there were no changes here, which lets me draw 2 conclusions: First, the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." applies here. Second, there teams handling Shadow and Elements different from the ones handling the base class and Hand. The new phrasing for Dim Light/Darkness might have something to do with DMs having to redefine what Dim Light is so that Shadow Step can't be abused that much, I mean, I get it, but sorry, no matter how much you complain under no circumstances you can call a shadow of any opacity Bright Light, deal with it (and also check if you can find the Gloomstalker by adjusting the lights). There's no winner here since both features are almost the same word by word.
An unlimited access to invisibility is nice (and I feel the Rogue here again), albeit this one comes with restrictions, understandably so. It boost combat exploration and infiltration. Only downside is that it takes an action, if it were a bonus action it would have let the Ro- I mean the Monk make at least 1 attack with advantage, although that part is redundant since Shadow Step covered that already, so this is not really a combat feature, and that being the case, it's not bad at all.
Your DM still does not let you use Shadow Step even when you are clearly covered by shadows? Fret not, for 1 DP you can now teleport from the sun if you want (and you can see a spot in Dim Light or Darkness), you can even be at a sunny beach and teleport back to your parasol. Also as if to adress the "damage loss" from bonus action teleporting, instead of MA bonus attack or FoB, Shadow Step now allows you to attack the moment you teleport in the same bonus action (so there's no longer any need to use the MA bonus attack) and this one can even be used before you take an action (you can even dodge after your attack if you want). Something I don't think is clear is if you need to use the DP to trigger the Unarmed Strike or if you can still use it if you use the original Shadow Step. I think it needed to be separated into different bullets to make it clear if the DP cost is tied to the Unarmed Strike or not. I know that Cloak of Shadows was moved to level 17, so a comparisson between the original Cloak and Improved Shadow Step may not seem fair, and they do completely different things, but I'll judge them as level 11 features; and I say that improving the best feature of the subclass is enough to put OneDnD version above 5e at this spot.
So I didn't use Cunning Action to disengage (since I'm dual wielding), nor did I take Mobile, or maybe I'm invisible waiting for my melee partner to run in so that I can land a Sneak Attack outside my turn. That's great... as a Rogue, as a Monk, a single reaction attack will not have such impact. Don't get me wrong, it is more damage, but this is not good enough for a monk subclass capstone (and arguably as a Rogue one as well).
Cloak of Shadows got moved to level 17, is it a good capstone now? Let's see. Again, let's deal with the negatives first, 3 DP cost means that it is no longer unlimited (although it seems to be the standard cost for monk capstones now), and its max duration is 1 minute, it can end early if incapacitated (I hated this on Astral Self, but this one is not that expensive at least). Now for the positives, your invisibility does not end if you so dare take a step into Bright Light (your DM's embers of a bonfire will not make you visible anymore), you only need to end your turn in Dim Light or Darkness, and that is what your Shadow Arts are there for. Going ghost for a minute is cool and the damage you might take is barely noticable at this point and considering your mobility is the highest of all other classes that get a feature like this, you can go through many other creatures/objects without worry (I guess no place is safe from you unless is fully illuminated with no trace of a shadow in sight). Lastly, FoB for free, umm sure it's good, but why here? This is something the Hand monk would have killed to get, heck if I had to pick between the new Quivering Palm and only unlimited FoB, you bet I'd pick FoB every single time. Let's adress 2 issues that this capstone has that may not be apparent at first glance, first Shadow Flurry can't be used on the same turn you activate Cloak of Shadows, so you get at most 9 uses of free FoB. Second, Shadow Step now competes with Cloak for your bonus action and later with Shadow Flurry, although they can be used alternatively so this is not a problem(Shadow Step for enemies that can still sense your location and Shadow Flurry for those who cannot). Though a bit clunky, OneDnd clearly has a better capstone than 5e.
It's a bit hard to tell which one is more effective resource-wise, 5e has only 1 feature that costs ki points (2 for any casting of spells) while OneDnD has 3 (1 for casting Darkness, 1 for Improved Shadow Step and 3 for Cloak of Shadows), also considering that both versions are more focused on Dex builds, Stunning Strike is rarely going to be used. Considering that OneDnd does want to spend DP on all of its features, and 5e will mostly use ki ponits only for casting along with Tasha's Ki-Fueled Strike allowing additional attacks after casting. Victory on this regard goes to 5e version, by a very narrow margin (because every DP spent by OneDnd Shadow is really impactful). UA8 monk update: given how DP can get recharged more easily now, DP effectiveness goes up in OneDnD.
In conclusion, OneDnd version really pulls ahead, especially considering that all of its features work really well together (even on the capstone 1st turn), IMO it's the best monk now (it was always top 3, now it's the top 1). 5e version is not bad, but as monk subclass it does not work as well as the new version. I'll say it again, it may have been better as a rogue subclass rather than a monk.
Thoughts?
They definitely did a good job with this one. The loss of Path without trace and silence is a bit of a bummer but I think the rest makes up for it. The subclass feels more cohesive along all levels. If they keep it as is for release I will be satisfied.
Pass Without Trace may have been used and abused to set up surprise rounds, but DMs may have problem dealing with those because they can trivialize combat a lot easier than an always landing Stunning Strike: players start asking if they have advantage because the target is surprised, if they can position themselves anywhere on the field, if they are still an unseen attacker even if they go straight from the front, etc.. Interestingly enough, the new shadow monk has a textbook definition of surprise attack with the Improved Shadow Step, regardless of how a DM runs player surprise rounds, they can't help but allow the teleport and attack happening at the same time, with advantage and with no set-up (maybe adding the invisibility from Cloak of Shadows will be overkill for your DM). As for Silence... I don't know why it was removed, perhaps WotC wanted the Shadow monk to focus on shadows and darkness? I'm fine with that, the subclass works wonderfully even without those 2 spells, let the casters that have access to them actually bother taking them.
Pass without trace was a good group buff that the monk doesn’t have much if anything else to assist the party, other than stun in combat.
And we haven’t seen if it was revised, which I wouldn’t be surprised to see, in 1DD.
Here's the thing about shadow monk. Yes it's better by far now but my issue with it is still a thing; it essentially trys to be a rogue without the actual benefits of being a rogue. Sure you're sneaky as hell, but to what end? Without expertise, you're not as reliable of an infiltrator / scout to deal with things like picking locks or disarming traps. Without sneak attack, you're going to emerge from the shadows to tickle an enemy where the rogue would slaughter them.
I think this class just needs a defining role within the party that doesn't infringe on typical rogue niches. One idea I had was using the darkness and mind ****ery theme to sew chaos rather than direct rogue type infiltration or assassination.
One idea I had was confusion. An enemy that ends 2 or more consecutive turns in your darkness must make a wisdom saving throw or be confused as if by the confusion spell. Or possibly just Enemies hit by your flurry of blows while in the darkness make that save.
Frightened / fear are other options that could be played with.
If not that that just SOMETHING. give the monk a niche for actually using the darkness that's not just being hidden.
I don't like grappling builds, but if you want a 'niche' or alternative playstyle for a shadow monk, that'd be grappling.
AC's barely a problem since you are meant to be in your Darkness and Stunning Strike is really not worth the cost, so you can just make do without a high Wis. Now you want a high Str for grappling and that's fine, you don't need both Dex and Str for this build. If you are really worried about your AC you can get armor proficiency (from multiclassing or a feat) and be done with it, the only thing affected by armor in this build would be your martial arts die and your unarmored movement, everything else on this subclass is completely independant. What's more, from level 11 you can teleport AND grapple on the same turn thanks to the new generic unarmed strikes rules, so far there's no other class or subclass that can do this. I guess it sounds fun, your enemy can't see anything and can't escape this darkness after a mysterious (and probably unseen as well) creature suddenly appeared out of thin air and locked them in place. Granted, you'd be dealing only 1+STR of damage this way, but you can afford other feats like grappler, and you can still use your weapons if you want, there's nothing stopping you from doing so.
That'll be a no from me boss, I'm not trying to sacrifice half of the monk's kit to try and grapple. If I wanted that I'd just go with astral self.
Astral won’t help you in 1DD, which we are talking about as grappling is part of an unarmed strike and the target gets a saving throw. It’s not an ability check like 5E currently. Unless I am misunderstanding what you’re saying.
Minor update adding UA8 monk changes.
i honestly dont even remember my train of thought when i posted that... you were in another thread recently where you noted that most of my concerns have been addressed in the current 1dd playtest for monk so right now im pretty happy where the class is going.
Personally, I hate darkness/devilsight combos and this is basically an entire subclass that revolves around making that happen. There are better ways to give yourself advantage on attacks while forcing enemies to have disadvantage on you that don't screw your party too. I would hate playing with one of these in the party. It would almost necessitate getting devilsight somehow.
Also, this is basically a subclass that will require the DM to make changes to encounters to make them interesting. Just casting darkness on everything every encounter as an 'I win' button gets real old real fast for everyone at the table, including the one abusing it. The DM will have to start using monsters and abilities that mitigate this which then basically makes this subclass bad.
I think this is a huge step in the wrong direction. This is taking my favorite subclass for monks and turning it likely into the most annoying.
I understand not liking the Darkness/Devilsight combo, but the way I see it, Shadow monks get more uses out of their Darkness than before (it is also there so that your DM doesn't have to handle "bright" shadows and shadows dark enough to teleport into). If Darkness screws over the party now, it was even worse in 5e when the monk couldn't see through it unless it spent feats or levels in other classes just to make use of it.
And if it still gets in the way, Darkness can be cast on a coin or any other tiny object that can be completely covered by clenching a fist, considering how weapon swapping works in the playtest, it wouldn't be too farfetched to have a Darkness on/off switch by closing and opening your hand, would it?
I'm not saying you have to like it, but I wouldn't say it's that much of a problem for the party. I mean, if the party knows the Shadow monk will (or rather 'can', it doesn't have to) use Darkness, then they can plan ahead to minimize the impact Darkness will have over them (and if they were already capable of pulling that combo on their own, they can also reap its benefits).
They removed the other spells too though. Options are way more interesting than only getting one option and making it much stronger (while annoying for the party). And if the 1dnd Shadow Monk doesn't use it, then it's honestly not a very good subclass until 17. In fact, it's way worse than the original one. I think when I played my shadow Monk to 15, I only used darkness a few times. I even eventually got something with that gave him true sight and still didn't abuse it because I knew how annoying it was for the party. I found the other spells more interesting in general. Your on/off switch idea might work to mitigate some of what makes it annoying, but it's also nerfing it. Why not just make the monk heavily obscured in magical darkness. It gets advantage on attacks, attacks against it get disadvantage. The difference is it doesn't annoy your party and break combat. You could also retool some of the other abilities to create dim light in other areas for shadow step.
It's not like darkness is bad if it effects everyone including the monk. It's more strategic and difficult to use, but it's not bad.